IFA 2008: Blu-ray Disc Assc. Press Conference
Blu-Ray News
29-08-2008 14:09  |  9996 views   |   David Mackenzie   |   My Other Content
 
IFA Consumer Electronics Show

DVD Times is present at 2008's Blu-ray Disc Association Press Conference. A summary of events follows.

5:00pm: After a few jitters, audio dropouts and shakes, a video plays. It has clips from various BD movies and looks great. After it, David Walstra appears and apologizes for the hiccup at the beginning of the video - he tripped over the HDMI cable.

He says that he hopes BD is still exciting to the press, and goes on to talk about BD Live. Come on David, BD is the only real way to watch high quality video at home (even with some of the stuff the studios are putting out). It doesn't need an ethernet jack and some corny games to be exciting!


Frank Simonis takes the stand. He talks a lot about sales figures and basically gives a rundown of the BDA, its members (there's 190+ of them), and then goes on to tackle the issue of downloadable movies. The next slide, entitled "Will consumers skip Blu-ray for Internet HD" makes such good points that it's necessary to reproduce it here rather than summarize:


Frank discusses sales figures. Long story short: they are good.

Time for some info on BD software. Sales are excellent in Europe: 5.2m units of software sold to date, growth rates at 400% year on year (source: GfK). "Clearly consumers are embracing the format".

"True high definition picture is the overwhelming reason" for this. Sony PHE have done surveys, and over 70% of respondents replied that the number one purchase driver was BD's "true high definition picture quality".

But despite this, the talk turns to BD Live. Sony PHE is committed to it and is "extending the disc experience by offering new content". A video showing the BD Live integration on the Starship Troopers 3 BD plays: you can upload a picture of yourself and 'star' in the movie. It gets a few chuckles.



"BD Live is exciting, and it's exceeded all our expectations. There is a consumer appetite for this exciting new functionality. These are early days for BD Live, and are just some examples of what it can do". Moving forward, ALL Sony PHE titles in Europe will be BD Live enabled.


Next clip shows Warner's 2008 BD titles. Afterwards, Monica Juniel, VP of International Marketing at Warner Home Video comes out with a concise and to the point presentation. They're happy with how BD is going, but "there are a few things we see which are slowing us down a bit". Warner are upset that PS3 owners don't buy as many BD movie titles as owners of dedicated players.

"We're thrilled to bits to have those consoles out there, [...] but we need more set top players out there, and we need the PS3 households to buy more movies". Standalone owners buy about twice as many discs as PS3 households.

Next problem: BD awareness is high, but familiarity is low. Barriers to purchase are mentioned: over 50% of people say the players are too expensive, and they're indifferent to BD. "Indifference here is telling us that they're completely happy with their standard definiton setup" and don't see a reason to move up.

Warner's plan: bundle titles with BD players and PS3s. The second initiative is to get PS3 households to buy Blu-ray Remote addons. Apparently, owners of PS3 remote controls buy 5 discs annually instead of 2. Given how annoying controlling a movie with a game pad is, I'm not surprised! Next plan: better "retail experience". Monica wants displays with SD DVD and BD playing beside each other to show consumers the difference.



Next: Gordon Ho from Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment. He says that Disney loves delivering killer applications. "Five years ago, Disney made a commitment to BD" and is very confident now in releasing killer apps. The "crown jewels" are Disney's animated classics: the Platinum line, which is now coming to BD. Pinocchio, Snow White, Fantasia and Fantasia 2000 are on the way. A trailer plays. Oh me, oh my, does this look amazing! Footage is shown of 1080p 101 Dalmatians, Beauty and the Beast, The Lion King, and other Disney 2D animated classics.




Sleeping Beauty is already coming out this Autumn. "How many people have seen Sleeping Beauty? Whether on video, LaserDisc, DVD? I promise you've never seen Sleeping Beauty until you've seen it on Blu-ray High Def". Gordon talks about how the restoration was performed from the 2.55:1 nitrate negative, [please ignore the earlier "2.35" typo] and mentions that the original audio stems were found in a vault in Disney's German office, meaning it was possible to remix the audio to 7.1.

Gordon shows us 1080p Sleeping Beauty. Like all of Disney's restorations, it's totally grainless, and it looks very saturated. So, not very filmic, but nevertheless very appealing.

Sleeping Beauty BD also has a corny bonus feature: "The Dragon Encounter". "What would it be like if a dragon was released in your living room?". A 3D render of a dragon chases the fairies from the film around a prison cell, and does it loudly.

The last thing to show off is a surprise: he has the beta disc of Sleeping Beauty and shows a new feature. "The thing about Disney villainesses is that they know everything about out heroes: where they are, where they're hiding..." The game is a take on "20 Questions", and the Blu-ray player asks you to think of an object, asks a bazillion questions ("Is it smaller than a loaf of bread?", "Does it have writing on it?"), and then tells you what you were thinking of.

He asks for audience participation, and someone says they're thinking of a car. After about 5 minutes of questioning, the disc tells us that the object we had in mind was... a sports car! I knew Sony had put some creepy features in the BD spec, but really!

After some more statistics (all good), it's time for Q&A!


Question one asks for an opinion: the studios supply 1080p content to DirecTV and Dish [American satellite broadcasters], who suggest to their users that they offer the equivalent of BD quality on their highly compressed movie channels.

Frank Simonis says that "from the BDA perspective, we feel that this statement is not correct. The broadcasters offering this service do so at low bandwidth, 15mbps, compared to BD's 54mbps maximum. So their claim is really only on the outside, and BD offers much more".

Disney: "that's misleading, one of the things we have to do is educate. We'll help educate, perhaps with a side-by-side of a satellite transmission and BD".

Question two: Why is the high-def audio only ever in English? Why are we being treated as second class?

Language barriers mean that Warner misunderstand the question, but then say they understand and will improve the situation.

When prompted, Disney claim that mathematics and bandwidth play a part but promise more support will come.

Question three: reiteration of question two, from another person. WHEN will the high def audio dubs come?

Warner: there's no date, a lot of it is related to capacity. [When you have 50gb?!]

Disney: this interest is good, good feedback. Thank you for the enquiries.

Question four: Nobody talks about SACD and DVD Audio any more. Where's our high quality audio content on BD?

Answer: Walstra says he was involved with SACD very much, and while people loved the sound it was a lack of picture that caused the demise. As BD has high def video and audio, so is ideal for music titles. He says that a LOT more music titles are coming out soon. "Having said that, SACD isn't quite forgotten - our high end amplifiers still accomodate the interface".

Question five: There was a lot of talk in the presentation regarding how far ahead the US was in various ways, but in Europe there's a lot of frustration regarding companies announcing products in the rest of the world 6, 7, 8 months before, then bringing them to Europe for much higher prices. So what else were the BDA expecting to happen, and what was the logic behind these moves?

Answer: the studios look uneasy, so Frank Simonis answers on behalf of the BDA. He believes there is a lot of choice in Europe, but things were delayed because of the delayed PS3 launch. Second, Europe has 15 different languages, and as such it's a handicap. Things must be worked out on an individual country basis, putting Europe on a 1 year lag. It's not something the BD likes, but it's inevitable and the BDA thinks they're doing a good job. He promises good things this Fall, and says that European consumers are hungry for HD content, especially because there's not much high def television broadcasting here.

As for pricing: US prices exclude VAT and the distribution is different, so you can't make a straight A-to-B comparison. Europe is different, hence different behaviour.

Frank invites us for food and drink, ending the conference.
#1 Posted: 29-08-2008 00:44
filmfan316uk
Member
Posts: 404

Interesting article.


I am a Japanese PS3 owner but like films as much as I do games so buy a lot more than 5 BDs annually. I brought a BD remote a week after I brought the system back in Jan 07.


However I really am in the minority as the PS3 owners I know have 2 discs at the most. 

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#2 Posted: 29-08-2008 07:21
DaveF
Administrator
Posts: 2318

I guess there is no real incentive with HD DVD out of the picture, but this seems to be quite a lacklustre showing from Blu-ray. Only the Disney animated titles really feel like major announcements.


I'm a PS3 owner who is not buying many titles (6 this year) and have no real plans to buy anymore this year. It's all down to price Warner. £16 to £18 for a new release title AFTER retailer discounts = taking the piss. I doubt even Iron Man or The Dark Knight will be able to convince me otherwise, Wall-E I might make an exception for though.

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#3 Posted: 29-08-2008 07:38
Michael Mackenzie
Contributor
Posts: 1651
There are definitely a number of titles that I'm interested in coming out this year, but most are catalogue titles which, going by the studios in question's track records in that area, probably won't even look all that great. The Disney titles are certainly the biggest news, although the fact that we're basically only getting five titles staggered over two years means that it's going to be a long wait.

It's too bad no-one asked Disney about their practice of sucking all the grain out of their animated classics when they "restore" them, given that it's the exact opposite mentality to Sony, who seem to attempt to preserve the look of the original source materials whenever possible.

These new BDLive features look like a joke and are no better (although admittedly more advanced from a technical standpoint) than the ringtones and online questionnaires the HD DVD group were trumpeting two years ago.

I'm also slightly concerned about the amount of pressure being put on the studios to provide lossless dubs. It'd be a shame if they ended up squandering valuable bandwidth and disc space on something like that.
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#4 Posted: 29-08-2008 11:34
Manmc
Member
Posts: 41

Ima mused by item 2 above regarding downloads which could also be levelled against BD , ie. ' customers are content with current mode ( of delivery )


Ive yet to come across a feature on a BD that wasnt similar/equal to Hd-Dvd ages ago .


Warners drop the ball themselves on occasion , featureless new releases ( Outbreak, Eraser ) as well as leaving extras off which are available on the SD set ( Jfk)


Agreed about 'grain reduction' or ' bleaching' sometimes it comes across as unnatural looking ( even better than the real thing ?? ) and this will continue to be a source of debate especially with classic movies ( Hitchcock etc )


For  some reason , I have a natural aversion to having Sony + the Internet running in the living room and surely having a Hd download reaching the correct screen , as also mentioned , is no different really anyway ??


I mean , The Popcornhour sells for $215 online and comes with an HDMI cable while my ( Region Free ) Panasonic DMP-BD50 cost >£500 and they didnt even throw a cable in !!!!


Best

~M~

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#5 Posted: 29-08-2008 12:00
DeadKenny
Member
Posts: 215

That the BDA have to talk down Internet HD at all speaks volumes. If it was no threat they wouldn't even bother mentioning it. I'd also suspect that BDLive would be largely dropped entirely since there's no need to compete with HD DVD now.


I feel that to dismiss some form of Internet HD in the not so distant future is a mistake. It has far more potential than people think. Traditional downloads and P2P methods we currently have, perhaps not. Broadband speeds are frequently mocked, but then look at how much of an increase in speeds we've had in the space of 5 to 10 years so far. Common gripes are that no one wants to wait to download a movie, and yet they are happy to wait 2 to 3 days (or more) for something in the post.

Though I think it's more likely it will be near-on-demand and on-demand HD download services from broadcasters (cable and satellite) that will really be the main challenge. Especially if it costs (for example) £5 to download an HD movie vs £20+ for a BD disc. Imagine a system of delivery where you can watch some stuff pretty much on demand and others you just order up and are downloaded overnight. Latest movies only need to be offered on a repeating feed via the dish. Others by broadband and the likes of Sky Broadband would not have an issue with the bandwidth used if they're selling the movies.


There's still a market for BD, but the price is so high it's really (for me at least) only for "special" films. Things I love so much I cannot do without and would be happy to pay loads for boxed sets etc.

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#6 Posted: 29-08-2008 13:44
tonyleung
Member
Posts: 854

Quote:
Walstra says he was involved with SACD very much, and while people
loved the sound it was a lack of picture that caused the demise.

I doubt it. People don't expect a picture on CDs. IMO the strength of SACD (next to DVD-A) was no gimmicky video content. Both failed due to lack of marketing, it was a joke. They also failed due to lack of public demand in the MP3 age.

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#7 Posted: 29-08-2008 14:56
chippo
Member
Posts: 17

Maybe Disney are restoring from the original cel elements wherever possible, hence lack of grain?

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#8 Posted: 29-08-2008 15:01
Michael Mackenzie
Contributor
Posts: 1651
Quote:
Originally posted by chippo
Maybe Disney are restoring from the original cel elements wherever possible, hence lack of grain?

The article specifically mentions that Sleeping Beauty was taken from the nitrate negative. Given that I'm sure many cels and backgrounds have since been sold or have escaped via illicit means, I don't think it would now be possible to reassemble the films from their original physical elements.
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#9 Posted: 29-08-2008 19:51
tonyleung
Member
Posts: 854

Nice article thanks.

They sound surprised with BD Player prices what they are (even the PS3) that more people aren't taking up HD. The majority of people buy a PS3 for the Games, whereas with a BD Player you're not going to not buy any, after spending a fortune getting the player.

As Dave says the software pricing is a joke too. The simple fact is VHS to DVD was a mammoth step forward in every single way, the jump from DVD to BD is just not as great. Most people want a decent picture and the easy of use DVD brings. The picture is frankly already good enough with DVD for the majority of consumers and the ease of use from DVD to BD is no different.

While I can see BD taking off more as Player/Software prices fall it just won't ever come close to DVD popularity, unless the plan is to phase out DVD that is. Which isn't going to happen any time remotely soon, if at all.

The majority of people by HD TVs for the physical thin form not because it happens to also handle HD. When the cost comes down more people will likely buy into it though, to go with their HD TVs they already have.

p.s - As expected BD Live looks like a joke! What an embarresement Profile 2.0 has become.

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#10 Posted: 29-08-2008 19:54
tonyleung
Member
Posts: 854

The most exciting aspect I find from that article is the news of (finally) some BD Audio titles. Otherwise it's all bland.

Like Mike I also have much more interest in catalogue titles, which unless your name is Warner (cue Fox) they rarely give much effort to. While rubbish like Transformers and AVP get excellent discs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadKenny:I'd also suspect that BDLive would be largely dropped entirely since there's no need to compete with HD DVD now.

BD-Live doesn't exist just to compete with HD-DVD. They need BD-Live as a selling point, it has potential but so far nothing of worth has been done with it.

How about extra subtitles or "proper" extras a year/months after release? Instead of a new SE. That would be worthwhile but of course that won't happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mackenzie:
I'm also slightly concerned about the amount of pressure being put on the studios to provide lossless dubs. It'd be a shame if they ended up squandering valuable bandwidth and disc space on something like that.

Me too. I still find it utterly bizzarre that anyone would actually choice to watch a film using a dub. I'd rather not bother watching it, if I had to endure a dub.

Include lots of DD5.1/DTS dubs by all means but not Lossless. The maximum they'll likely be able to include is Original Language plus 2-3 dubs maximum. That won't appease those who like dubs.

I'd imagine their are much more than 15 languages used throughout Eurpope.

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#11 Posted: 29-08-2008 20:12
Monkfish69
Home Cinema Enthusiast
Posts: 71

Price is an issue for me, but then so is quality.  What's the point in splashing out for a BD title when the quality is really not that much better than the SD DVD version of the same film ? There are some dodgy BD's out there at the moment.  Look at the original Fifth Element when that was released.  Look also at the films that were rushed out at launch.  Stealth, Into the Blue etc.

Price though is the main issue and if BD's were a lot cheaper, then I would own a lot more of them.  I'm even snapping up HD-DVD's at the moment cause they are cheaper, even though the format is dead...


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#12 Posted: 30-08-2008 12:21
tonyleung
Member
Posts: 854

It's unfair to bring up Fifth Element as Sony knew they'd made a mistake and corrected it. Sadly they've still not correct Terminator or House of Flying Daggers though (fo rit's lacklusture PQ).

Fox are by far the worst though, at least many of the other studios have learnt from their shoddy discs. Fox are still releasing them and charging more than most too.

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#13 Posted: 31-08-2008 11:41
Krobar
Member
Posts: 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyleung:


Quote:
Walstra says he was involved with SACD very much, and while people
loved the sound it was a lack of picture that caused the demise.

I doubt it. People don't expect a picture on CDs. IMO the strength of SACD (next to DVD-A) was no gimmicky video content. Both failed due to lack of marketing, it was a joke. They also failed due to lack of public demand in the MP3 age.




Agreed, SACD was fine from a technical perspective, the problem was lack of demand and the usual audiophile aversion to change. SACD Hybrids were ideal, the reason Profile 3.0 is not causing much excitement is few can see any real advantages over SACD and standard Bluray will nicely cover the music vid / concert side of things. Who does Walstra work for?

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#14 Posted: 01-09-2008 03:10
David Mackenzie
ISF Certified
Posts: 356

Quote:
Who does Walstra work for?

Sony Europe. Really nice guy. 

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